At a time like this, when not all dealers can be trusted, you need to be on guard. During the time which they made knives, the company created a long line of hunting and fishing knives. TreasuresbyMoStore. Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. This is an interesting if somewhat fragmented collection of recollections from people who have a direct family connection to the Case Knife company and the companies that came and went before it. Read Next: The Total Outdoorsmans Guide to Knives. . As usual Dustin, a fine writeup on a field often overlooked by collectors. Picked up this Kinfolks the other day with its original sheath, tang reads Kinfolks Incorporated, anyone have a date range for this knife. If you dont have both the repro and original side by side, you might not be able to tell the difference sometimes. $9.90 shipping. Marble tended to know his customers well, and if he thought a double guard would sell better than a single, then that was the way it was going to be. Camillus knives are one of my most favorites knives to date. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? Kinfolks Founded by Dean Case, Russ Case and Tint Champlin Little Valley, New York 1925-1957 Literally founded by kin - cousins Dean and Russ Case, and Tint Champlin - the venture was to help W.R. Case & Sons and Cattaraugus Cutlery meet production demands for fixed-blade knives. by XX Case XX Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:38 pm, Post Kinfolk's knives were made by the Kinfolk company from about 1924 until the early 1950's. They are very hard to date the exact time they were produced. My thought was A- at some point the two were mated or B-CASE acquired the sheaths from the same supplier as Camillus, I lean towards A. We dont share your credit card details with third-party sellers, and we dont sell your information to others. Kinfolks used to mark their knife blades, and those markings helped tell what era the knives came from. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? A German himself, and having spent enough time in the U.S.A. to know the market landscape, this business venture was not difficult for him. Procure a maior eBookstore do mundo e comece a ler hoje na web, no tablet, no telefone ou eReader. by TexasRed Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:56 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. #1 Check the Tang Stamps This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. by JohnR Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:59 pm, Post Just $1 per month , The history of Marbles knives and their impact on outdoor cutlery for the last 120 years, By Outdoor writers of the period all ridiculed the Bowies as being strictly, Billy the Kid, dime-novel fantasies. As for the butcher knives and the folders, they got the job done, but they didnt have much flash. To see this page as it is meant to appear, please enable your Javascript! The Expert. This guide to dating Camillus knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only. Do you think that the Government would have specifically requested the chrome plating, or that the manufactures supplied them from their existing stock to fill orders? Vintage Kinfolks Fixed Blade Hunting Knife Stacked Leather Handle W/Sheath . Without new collectors, this hobby will slowly atrophy until there are just a few of us left (until we age out). One of the most common models today has the 568 TC USA marking on its blade. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. Okay, maybe not fakes. Great knife. I've pretty much assumed that it is likely not a War production piece, but whether it's pre or post war I have no idea as Case used the chrome plating for a long time. Brain fart I suppose. This was a straight-backed, sheath knife with a slight clip-on, flat ground blade that swept to the point at the very end. Picked this up at a nearby antique festival in NC. There has always been a certain amount of fad over function involved in the way outdoorsmen select their cutlery. The model 380 was one of the most popular. He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. I appreciate you writing this post and the rest of the site is very good. The originals stopped being made such a long time ago that the catalogs and materials to identify them might have all gotten lost, or might be unreliable. KinfolksFounded by Dean Case, Russ Case and Tint ChamplinLittle Valley, New York1925-1957. Next is the Camillus family. Also pictured is the AAC procured pattern 5665 with stag and rosewood handles. 1 bid. and do not appear to have been used! The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. Also, for the first time, the personal memories of multiple branches of this . The third (bottom) one is interesting as it seems to have a fuller but barely and steel guard, Always assumed the pommels were secured like the MK1s. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. KINFOLKS DOUBLE SET KNIFE BUTTERSCOTCH AMBER PLUS UNMARKED BIRD AND TROUT. You can also check much larger forums such as BladeForums, AllAboutPocketKnives, or such other relevant picks. I have covered some of them here for you: Those guides expose you to some insider tips and strategies to get the exact date of these knives, narrow down their era or simply confirm if you have the original thing. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. Or do you just want to know the value of your knife? These fakes are even made with materials that age fast, tricking you into thinking that the knife has indeed seen a lot of years. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. Vintage Kinfolks Fixed Blade Hunting Knife Stacked Leather Handle W/Sheath . In short order, virtually every major cutlery company in the U.S., England, Germany, and Sweden began offering their own versions of Marbles most popular knives. He spent the past 20 years as a woodworker and fishing guide in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Idaho, and Tennessee. You can jump to the following sections if youre in a hurry, but I would advise that you dont skip this part. The company closed shop in the 1950s and they have since been resurrected in other capacities. Pictured are the 5 principle pattern types and manufacturers for the USAAF. Really nice knife, and to each his own, but I would not date that knife. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. This is the Kinfolks family. Clays primary role is as Digital Editor, curating and creating new content for our website and blog, as well as maintaining the Knife Magazine social media accounts (FB/IG: @theknifemag, Twitter: @knifemagazine). With these prices it will be hard for a new collector (with limited funds) to acquire nice knives in the future. If find myself picking up the book time to time to just reread a chapter or two. or Best Offer. When speaking with them, make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell. Thank you for sharing. Back to one of your earlier posts. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. However it looks like your knife has a nickel silver guard which may indicate pre-Kinfolks made by Case. I know Camillus had the one style sheath for 5"knives that seems to be unique to them, but I kind of wonder if sheaths weren't generally a sub-contracted item and often shared between different manufactures. Today, you and I are going to go through a journey that should, hopefully, help us estimate the founding date of your Kinfolks knife or what era it came from at the least. Re: Kinfolks identification Post by Leo7504 Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:15 am I obtained access to that Kinfolks book and the 1939 Catalog describes a Model 925 with a 5 in blood groove blade,heavy back and keen edge, double non-slip guard and extra long indestructible handle, length overall to 9 1/2 inches. Although a part of the Case knives family, Kinfolks knives didnt have a long run in the market. I work hard so my Dog can have a better life AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. When WWI and WWII came along, Adolph shifted the focus of the company to cater to U.S. soldiers and the Allied Forces. I believe youre more interested in dating the vintage ones, though, so the other era guides on that list are best suited to your needs. | Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. The knife you have is the third pattern manufactured under amendment 5679 L36A eliminating the aluminum pommel replacing it with a Resinox plastic type and eliminating the spacers to reduce cost making this model a late war expedited lower costing knife. Today, they have become a favorite of collectors, so much that we are interested in dating them to know whether we have the real deal or a fake. For all that good, though, some bad actors have learned how to make fake Camillus knives and pass them off as vintage. Awarded many contracts during the period from 1939 to 1945, Kinfolks produced a significant number of knives in several different patterns which helped our men in the field and in the air with a quality tool when needed. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. In 1958, Robeson purchased Kinfolks Inc of Little Valley, New York, which just happened to be Emerson Cases former employer. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. Way cool! All had clip-point blades and a deeply-fullered edge grind (not a blood groove). Check out local knife forums where you have experienced knife collectors, enthusiasts, and users too. In 1929, Marbles added a 4-inch-blade version of the Expert to its line called the Sports Knife. The Girl Scouts of America adopted it as their official sheath knife in 1930, and the Boy Scouts made it an alternative to the more expensive Woodcraft. There are variations within each manufacturer. Still factory sharp! Certainly Western didn't have facilities to make sheaths in factory before the 50's. List prices may not necessarily reflect the product's prevailing market price. And a final rant about the place we all love to hate. Certainly the Camillus and the Westerns are just finished bright, I've never seen any examples that were plated, (only referring to the 5in knives here). From mine and your two they are all slightly different which would suggest the milling process was not precise, however it is distinctive one uses brass spacers and the other does not. Reviewed in the United States on November 22, 2021, Kinfolks Knives: A History of Cutlery and Cousins, Reviewed in the United States on September 27, 2010. When Vietnam heated up, the Camillus Pilot Survival Knife became a standard-issue item for a wide range of units, including Ranger Companies. There are also extensive catalogs on the knife brand, making my work easier. It appears both types of finishes were used , plated and polished. This is a pity, as the Woodcraft still remains one of the best big game processing knives ever designed. 4 bids. I note that you say that there is a third variation of the #5679 L 36 that has the black plastic pommel (presumably of the Mark 1 style). WOW! Dustin, thanks for the information about my third pattern knife. Maybe it was the Woodcraft name that sold them. Your email address will not be published. I love to read a book that sticks with me even after I have put it down. Instead, it was supposed to be reserved for professional hunters, trappers, and guides with the experience to use a light, sharp blade in the field. The design of the knife was very imposing. This is an interesting if somewhat fragmented collection of recollections from people who have a direct family connection to the Case Knife company and the companies that came and went before it. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. I have presumed that it was a 5679 L 36 that some one had replaced the grip and pommel with those from a USN Mark 1. Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. After looking at the lead filler on the pommels of yours it is even tough to say that they could make those variations. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. The mystery of the Jean Case Cutlery Company is at last explained, and many family photographs and recipes are included. The Western procured knife by the USAAF was only known to have the brown bakelight guard and pommel but there are two variations in the sheath with a low and high throat retaining strap. The knife featured here was manufactured by the Kinfolks company. Also, for the first time, the personal memories of multiple branches of this American cutlery dynasty are included, as well . by knifeaholic Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:39 pm. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/btrwtr. They also sometimes referred to the blade or overall knife material which is equally helpful in narrowing down the years. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. The Creedmoor is the hottest cartridge on the Sign up for the Field & Stream newsletter and get the latest intelligence straight to your inbox. Interesting,educational,and nice knives too. This item can be returned in its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of receipt. Great read, with very helpful information. One strange side note to its history is that it was once the official sheath knife of the American Boy Scouts, from 1933 to 1940. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well. One of the biggest challenges with dating any kind of knife at all is the change of ownership that might have occurred along the line. By 1876, after his uncles company had to close shop due to poor sales figures, Adolph charted out a new path for himself. From the top is the first production strait tang markings followed by the second production arced tang stamp. Required fields are marked *. Read Next: Five Best Hunting Knives Ever Made. The M3 trench knife or M3 fighting knife was an American military combat knife first issued in March 1943. Sign up for a new account in our community. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of . LARGE STOCKMAN - JADE BONE KINFOLK JIG. Gladstone, Mich USA with sheath. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. The middle knife has the chrome plating on the blade that Case was known to do. Basically, this was the Ideal with a 6-inch sawback blade, fully sharpened false edge, steel crossguard, and a heavy steel nut as a pommel. The Case has two variations which are the details in the casting of the pommel. There are variations within each manufacturer. I have noticed over the past two or so years that the prices of decent WW2 knives on ebay have more than doubled what I was paying back in 2016 and earlier. Many people think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife company, but that is not so. Thank you for your interesting post. Marbles next gift to the sporting cutlery world was the Expert sheath knife (5- and 6-inch blade lengths), introduced in 1906. Re: Dating Kinfolks Knife. Sactroop, I saw yours in a previous post and it does indeed have the unique sheath supplied with Camillus AAC knives. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. Originally, the deep fuller was intended to allow the blade to be laid flat on a hone and sharpened something like a straight razor. Search our products for it! One of the most common models today has the "568 TC USA" marking on its blade. However, the Case dating system also adds to the appeal and collectibility because the knives can be easily identified and dated. Starting in 1918, the English cutlery company, Wade and Butcher, began offering pretty much exact copies of Marbles Ideal pattern. With Western being so far off in the hinterland, maybe their sheaths tend to be more unique to them. Even if there is no evidence on that, it doesnt drive down the value of these well-made, vintage knives. So, whats unique about the history of the Camillus knives? Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. Fortunately for us, Camillus changed their stamps enough to map each one to different periods. $6.30 shipping. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. This is so ridiculous, it's laughableyet, assinine. I know that Case was plating some of their knives as early as the 1930's and marketing them as corrosion resistant. H. Clay Aalders is a lifelong edged tool user. It is not a particularly rare blade (but in very good to excellent condition); there are several like this for sale on ebay most times I look (which is about 3-4 times a week). All that can contribute to making it harder to know when these knives came from. However, that should not deter you from knowing when your knife was probably made. The Camillus Cutlery company also produced: Their production capacity was expanded during the second world war when they had to manufacture a lot of high-quality knives to meet the needs of the soldiers shipping off to war. Fortunately, we dont have that with Kinfolks, but there is a unique issue. Something went wrong. The two with fullers or blood grooves are the known AAF procured types. The company got a short reprieve in 1957 when its survival knife design was selected for use by all Air Force and Navy pilots. From then until 1965, Robeson produced Kinfolks brand knives in addition to its regular line, using many of the same features and handle material. Ending Jan 29 at 8:05AM PST 1d 10h. Join F&S+ to read exclusive stories by your favorite writers. Besides Kinfolks knives, there are a series of other well-made knives that you may have and want to date. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Did you recently find a Camillus knife, and youd like to know what era it came from? Learn more how customers reviews work on Amazon. The middle one is the other variant with oval shaped liked filler. As popular as the Marbles line was with outdoorsmen, it was their impact on the rest of the cutlery industry that really made a lasting impression. There were six manufacturers: Kinfolks, Queen, Williams, Case, Ka-bar, and PAL. Looking for a particular book or back issue? Is it a genuine vintage or merely a reproduction? by JohnR Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:39 pm, Post There is also no proof that Case made any fixed blades before 1923, and by 1926 and up to 1932-33 all their fixed blades were made by Kinfolks. If you have a Kinfolks knife of your own to date, you probably know that already too. It's easy! $14.59. Providing rare insight into Kinfolks and the families involved in its creation and development, Kinfolks Knives is intended to be the most accurate history of the cutlery compiled to date. dustin, all I can say is the guard is not magnetic. His background is in fixed-blade hunting and bushcraft knives, but has jumped into the world of vintage slipjoint collecting with both feet since coming to work at Knife Magazine. During WW2 I believe Kinfolks was in Little Valley in Western NY. A timeline of the family and related cutleries is included for quick reference, as well as answers to the most common questions about the company from www.KinfolksInc.com. Thank you Steve, did not realize it could be that old, the type of bone and the hammered pins did make me wonder.. is intended to be the most accurate history of the cutlery compiled to date. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. $12.00. You may receive a partial or no refund on used, damaged or materially different returns. Maybe you want to buy a knife and you want to be sure its worth the price too? My FIL's knife definitely isn't plated. Total Production: 2,469,956. Besides showing you how to date a Camillus knife properly, I also give some tips to avoid falling into the fake vintage Camillus knife scam. Where neither is possible, its best to stay away. Your email address will not be published. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. We are sorry. Modern hunters will automatically question the length of the 3--inch handle, but this was intentional on the part of Brooks. Vintage Kinfolks Knife Bakelite Pommel with Sheath. It maybe that some knives with the chrome plating were used to fill orders, but I just don't know. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Im not sure who made that decision as it seems like the Expert or even the Ideal would have been better for camping chores. excellent! by btrwtr Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:19 pm, Post Your email address will not be published. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. Kinfolks Inc. and World War II by Frank Trzaska. The sheath with this knife was marked Camillus on the back. Kinfolks WWIIvar option_df_159643 = {"outline":[],"forceFit":"true","autoEnableOutline":"false","autoEnableThumbnail":"false","overwritePDFOutline":"false","direction":"1","pageMode":"0","source":"https:\/\/www.knifemagazine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/blogpost\/KM-July-2021-Kinfolk.pdf","wpOptions":"true"}; if(window.DFLIP && DFLIP.parseBooks){DFLIP.parseBooks();}, HistoryKinfolks Inc.Knife Magazine ArchivesKNIFE Magazine July 2021WWIIWWII Knives. thorin6, Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. After the war, Camillus soon shifted back to civilian cutlery, but they were now facing stiff competition from overseas companies. In any case, Marbles Woodcraft and Ideals are still easy to find on eBay. Kinfolks Knives offers an accurate and factual history of Kinfolks Cutlery. ${cardName} unavailable for quantities greater than ${maxQuantity}. Amazon has encountered an error. Still, Read More Knife Dating Little has been written about Kinfolks Incorporated and even less has been written about their contribution to the war effort during World War II. It is the aluminum guards that define Kinfolks made Case fixed blades. Its now rare to find a Marbles pattern hunter in any of the major cutlery lines. Our payment security system encrypts your information during transmission. ANTIQUE KINFOLKS U.S.A. MY65 Knife & Hatchet Combo Ax Axe Butterscotch Amber. Before WWII, the Woodcraft saw the most attention from competitors. Correct Kinfolks marked sheath, lightly sharpened condition, guard and leather washers very tight. While some other companies have taken over the design and started to make modern versions, there is simply nothing like the older units that first came out under the original Klaas company. In any case, buyers must have questioned the length of the handle too, as, over the years, Marbles steadily increased its length. My guesstimate would be about 1925 (IIRC the founding year for Kinfolks, but I could be wrong) up to WWII. This was a straight-backed, sheath knife with a slight . Your email address will not be published. They also sometimes referred to the blade or overall knife material which is equally helpful in narrowing down the years. Also, for the first time, the personal memories of multiple branches of this . Enjoy! Challenges with Dating the Kinfolks Knife. Then came Webster Marble. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. While guiding in Idaho, Clay worked part-time writing for a local newspaper, and upon moving to Tennessee began writing for the blog The Truth About Knives - spending his last 5 years there as Managing Editor. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, Do you have a knife that you want to have sold? The Western "V-44" offered here is in about FINE condition. Instead, he sought out a smaller cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management team. I agree that he probably was the person who hand stamped the USN mark on the sheath. Slowly at first, but with increasing momentum, the folding hunter once again became the favorite field knife of most hunters, and the Marbles patterns were considered old fashioned. By 1992, Buck had produced 11,000,000 Model 110s and was adding more at the rate of 400,000 a year. It is believed that some of these tactical knives made it to WWII but there is no concrete proof of that anywhere. View cart for details. The sheath also offered a stone pouch and extra holes for tying it down to a flight uniform. Kinfolks Knives offers an accurate and factual history of Kinfolks Cutlery. The CASE 322-5 are suppose to have plated finished blades. or Best Offer. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, Of all the knives that I have ever tried to date, the Kinfolks remain one of the most beautiful. Dustin- Nice collection!! Great Knife Collection. Kinfolks Knives offers an accurate and factual history of Kinfolks Cutlery. Due to labor issues, Kinfolks was closed in 1957, with another cousin, Emerson Case, continuing production of the brand under Robeson Cutlery in Perry, New York, until 1965. Except for books, Amazon will display a List Price if the product was purchased by customers on Amazon or offered by other retailers at or above the List Price in at least the past 90 days. Reviewed in the United States on February 13, 2011. 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date A Kinfolks Knife to A Specific Era, How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date a Camillus Knife Effectively (1902 2007), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Determine the Value of a Knife (Vintage, Antiques & Collectibles). All of these make the recipe for a truly great knife that deserves our attention. Kinfolks Knives offers an accurate and factual history of Kinfolks Cutlery. The third production not pictured has a black plastic pommel. It is not known when these knives went out of production, but they made it as far as 1993. While this may sound fairly conventional, no one else was making a similar hunting knife at the time. If you do, that might be the last time you see that fine blade. When I received the package, I, out of more curiosity than anything began to read the forward and introduction and was immediately drawn in by the colourful characters and the 140 years of american history. dustin, Also, for the rst time, the If you are a Case Knife collector this is more the backstory on the people who built the companies that made the products and less about the specifics on any era of knives. The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. Picked this up at a nearby antique festival in NC. Kinfolks were granted the patent to use tungsten carbide on their knives in 1955, and the knives went into production afterward. Some extremely valid points! Marbles halted most knife production in 1976, and the trademark was later sold to a company overseas. Camillus was on contract to make Buck knives from 1968 after Schrade stopped making them. But there are clever reproductions that can fool you into thinking its the real thing. Robeson continued to make knives until 1965, the year that Emerson Case . This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. I posted the lower knife on another thread from Gary recently. Included are four vintage catalogs to aid collectors in the identification and dating of Kinfolks knives, as well as biographies of Kinfolks founders: Russ Case, Tint Champlin, and Dean Case. Didn't know they were filled that way. Please try again. Excellent collection !
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